User Name:

Password:

FAQ Donate Join

Atheist Experience
"Eyewitness Testimony to Jesus' Miracles"

Something I think isn't brought up enough is that even if we had dozens (or hundreds) of eyewitness testimony, going back to Jesus' time (from contemporaries who claimed to have witnessed it), and they all agreed, then it still wouldn't cut it. There are still miracle claims going on today, and when you look at someone like Sathya Sai Baba, who has over 1,000 centers run by people who are often educated, modern people who claim to have witnessed miracles he performed such as flying, raising the dead, etc. How is it that we should accept eyewitness claims from an ancient, backwater, pre-scientific people, while ignoring the testimonies of modern, educated people living in a scientific age?

The events surrounding Jesus were supposed to have taken place within a certain time in history, around 4 BCE to 33 CE. The main information sources of Jesus' life are from the documents known as the gospels. History written of the same period existing outside the gospels gives no information about Jesus (except for forgeries.) It is important to find out as much as is possible about the background of the gospels the authors, when were they written and are they valid and reliable.

The gospel written that claim to be written by the apostle Matthew, a follower of apostle Mark who followed Peter and a companion of Paul (Luke). An apostle Matthew didn't write Matthew, an apostle John didn't write the Gospel of John. Luke even in the beginning of his gospel said that he was not an eyewitness to these things but that he had made inquiries into the subject. John did not write the gospel of John. Bible scholars know this, and the evidence is overwhelming. John who wrote the book of John was certainly not an eyewitness to the resurrection. As for the Apostle Paul, he had a vision. Mark not Matthew was the earliest written gospel. Matthew and Luke were copied from Mark. Matthew and Luke also copied extensively from the lost document that scholars refer to as Q document. Mark was written about 70 CE. That is a long time after the death of Jesus. The author of Mark was not a witness nor was he the friend of a witness to the events in Jesus' life. His identity is unknown to us. Both the authors of Matthew and Luke are also unknown to us. The gospel of John is a late unreliable work. As in the case of Mark, Matthew and Luke - the author of this gospel is unknown to us.

There are no writings by any eyewitnesses. It is obvious that documents written by (unknown) authors who were not eyewitnesses at least close to half a century after the death of Jesus could not be reliable testimonies of a Jesus or the events involving his life. The time lapse (among other things) between the written account and the alleged events is reason enough to doubt the stories. There is no official Roman record of Jesus Crucifixion.

The Apostle Paul claims in 1st Corinthians the 15th chapter that he had seen Jesus in a vision after he had died. Visions are very unreliable evidence. Furthermore, eyewitnesses did not write the gospel accounts. On top of that there are no writings of the so-called eyewitnesses.

This is a forged statement in Matthew: "Go ye into all the world, and teach all nations." The avowed mission of the (Essenes), which includes the alleged Jesus, was exclusively to his fellow Jews: "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"; and they expressly commanded their disciples not to preach to the Gentiles, nor even to the near-Jewish Samaritans.

It is impossible for a Jesus to so flagrantly contradicted the basic principles of his exclusive mission, and command the institution of a permanent and perpetual religious organization or "Church" to preach his exclusively Jewish Messianic doctrines to all nations of the earth, which was to perish within that generation. This is proof of the forgery of this passage. It is recognized by reputable scholars that what the so-called historians were doing was recounting what Christians already believed. Josephus did not write about Jesus, very reliable theologians admit it's a forgery. As for as eyewitnesses, what did they ever write? You don't know if they really said that they saw the resurrection, or whether they said they saw the empty tomb, or Jesus after he was resurrected. You have the word of someone who wrote a gospel account who said that they said. You have the account of the Apostle Paul's vision, and said that Jesus appeared to five hundred witnesses. There is not one word written about this happening that is not a forgery. It is nothing but hearsay evidence. People don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead any more than they believe that Osiris rose from the dead.

i must disagree with that, there are many acounts of people talking about jesus, there are even records of his death. there is much proof for jesus' existence, and amoungst biblical scholars its almost completely accepted that jesus exists (or so the websites i have checked have told me) generally the existence of jesus is almost undisputable, whether the events took place as it says they did is another question but its said there was over 500 witnesses to jesus after he died. at the time there were only eye witnesses, they had no other forms of proof, they couldnt take photos and video jesus walking down the street, just because they cant prove it, doesnt mean it didnt happen.

confused christian--please present your evidence.

confused christian,

Saying something over and over and over again doesn't make it true. Maybe this worked on you and you think it can also work on others, but we are all adults here or at least most of us. Rather than perpetuate other people's lies and furthering your own confusion, please provide evidence. Without evidence outside your already flawed Bible or what you heard some Christian apologist told you to say, you're not going to convince anybody and it just makes you look silly doing a half ass job at having a real debate. You don't really have answers to questions posed to you, you don't provide creditable evidences and you keep repeat argumentative fallacies even after someone has tried explaining to you what they are and why. Either you are too dumb to understand what a fallacy is or you are not interested in educating yourself. Clearly you are not doing a good job at promoting your beliefs, which make your Christian beliefs even weaker.

To: confused christian - I guess you are disputing my answer to Ryan?

There are no writings from contemporaries of Jesus who claimed to be eyewitnesses of Jesus' life or death or anything else. Historians know that there are no writings by any historian that were written at the time of Jesus' supposed life or any historical writing of any events that Christianity is based on. There are no original documents there are only copies of copies of copies etc. Where do you get your information? There are no Roman records (from the actual time period) of a Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. All documents about Jesus were written well after the life of the alleged Jesus/god by unknown authors. The time period of these writings means that they could not have known a Jesus/god. There are forgeries and writings that are the retelling of myths about Jesus/god. The information and dates of these (so-called) historical writings show they could not serve as reliable evidence for a historical Jesus/god, simply because they all came from hearsay accounts, which means these writings didn't come from a witness' own knowledge of a Jesus/god. There are no accounts by eyewitnesses it is all hearsay.

Julius Caesar was deified a god 100 years before Jesus was deified a god. Julius Caesar was hailed as "God made manifest and universal Saviour of human life", and his successor Augustus was called the "ancestral God and Saviour of the whole human race" (Man and his Gods, Homer Smith, Little, Brown & Co., Boston, 1952).

The name Jesus was decided upon by Constantine at the Council of Nicaea long after the supposed death of the savior/god. Unlike the mythical Jesus Christ, we know what Caesar (who lived 100 years before Jesus) looked like (statues and paintings) and we have a complete history of his life. We have words written by Caesar himself and words written by his friends and his enemies. Artifacts confirm his life and death. These are called artifacts (the things required to prove that someone ever lived) and we have no artifacts for Jesus/god who was the most important figure in the history of the world according to the myth.

Flavius Josephus - Not a single writer before the 4th century - not Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Cyprian, Arnobius, etc. - in all their pleading against pagan hostility, makes a single reference to Josephus (Testimonium Flavianum). The third century Church Father Origen, He quotes from Josephus extensively. Yet even he makes no reference to this from Testimonium Flavianum, which would have been the ultimate rebuttal. In fact, Origen actually said that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ." Origen did not quote the Testimonium Flavianum because this paragraph had not yet been written. It was absent from early copies of the works of Josephus and did not appear in Origen's third century version of Josephus, referenced in his Contra Celsum. Josephus' birth in 37 C.E., well after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus, puts him out of range of an eyewitness account. He wrote in 93 C.E., after the first gospels were written. Most scholars who have examined the writing say it is forgery, but even if it was not forgery his information could only serve as hearsay. It's not an eyewitness forgery.

Eusebius served as an ecclesiastical church historian and bishop, and he had great influence in the early Church. Eusebius openly advocated the use of fraud and deception in furthering the interests of the Church. None of the early church fathers mentions any historical writings about a Jesus/god. Eusebius wrote about that it might be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived.

Ignatius Loyola of the 16th century wrote: "We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides" (a la Alice in Wonderland). Considering what we know about the early Church's intolerant and biased position these so-called historical writings that supports the Church are not reliable evidence - and they are not eyewitness forgeries.

Pliny the Younger, a Roman official, born in 62 C.E. His letter about the Christians only shows that he got his information from Christian believers themselves. Regardless, his birth date puts him out of the range of eyewitness accounts.

Tacitus - Roman historian's born 64 C.E., well after the alleged life of Jesus. He gives a brief mention of a "Christus" in his writings around 109 C.E. He gives no source for his material. Although many have disputed the authenticity of Tacitus' mention of Jesus, the very fact that his birth happened after the alleged Jesus and wrote the Annals during the formation of Christianity, shows that his writing can only provide us with hearsay accounts.

Suetonius, a Roman historian, born in 69 C.E. mentions "Chrestus," a common name. No scholar believes this is a reference to Jesus Christ- Christ is not a name, but even if Seutonius had meant "Christ," it still says nothing about a real Jesus. Just like all the others, Suetonius' birth occurred well after the purported Jesus. Again, only hearsay.

The story of Osiris, Isis and Heru was a story of antiquity, which had been told thousands of years before the Christian version of Jesus. Christians who regurgitated these ancient pagan myths as divine phenomena believed that would give them authority over other faiths.

Jesus was supposed to have been the first world savior born of immaculate conception on December 25, suffered the crucifixion and was resurrected as an act of defying death and ascended (all this mythology was more related to birth and decline of the physical Sun) from myths Krishna, Mithra, Addonis, Buddha Apollo, Osiris, Quetzalcoatl and others shared this so-called divine phenomena long before Jesus. The pyramids were built to preserve the soul and this is the origin of the immorality of the soul. The Egyptian Book of Dead provides us with this information.

Some Christians use brief portions of the Talmud, (a collection of Jewish civil a religious law, including commentaries on the Torah), as evidence for Jesus. They claim that Yeshu (a common name in Jewish literature) in the Talmud refers to Jesus. However, this Jesus, actually depicts a disciple of Jehoshua Ben-Perachia at least a century before the alleged Christian Jesus. The Palestinian Talmud was written between the 3rd and 5th century C.E., and the Babylonian Talmud between the 3rd and 6th century C.E., at least two centuries after the alleged crucifixion. It is a combo Christian - pagan legend; it is not evidence for a historical Jesus.

Christian apologists mostly use these sources as "evidence" of Jesus because they believe they represent the best outside sources. All other sources (Christian and non-Christian) come from even less reliable sources, Clement -Justin Martyr - Lucian - Ignatius - Tertullian - Hippolytus - Cyprian, all of these people lived well after the alleged death of Jesus. Not one of them provides an eyewitness account; all of it is simply hearsay.

Just proves that forgeries and people who probably never existed can't prove the existence of Jesus/god no matter what equivocation is claimed as proof. Where are any artifacts that prove a Jesus ever lived or any written documented proof by someone living at the time of Jesus' birth or death? Even the forgeries were written long after the alleged death of Jesus.

Theres many many references to Jesus THE JESUS , im sure many were burnt in the temple and in Rome under NERO , however LINDA is quick to dispell any of the above as being from eye witnesses ?

So what really , maybe they were destroyed or not found yet , but the many references of Jesus is enough proof in anybodies book that there must be some truth to the claims ?

Surely you,s Atheists can conclude that , we have no written account of the big bang either but you,s quickly jump on that bandwagaon ?

(Papyri Graecae Magicae)

This collection of papyri dates from the second century B.C. to the fifth century A.D.

Reference To Jesus Christ Several magical papyri which have survived from [the days of the apostle Paul] to ours contain attempts to reproduce the true pronunciation of the ineffable name - Iao, Iabe, and so forth - as well as other Jewish expressions and names such as Sabboath and Abraham, used as elements of magic spells. The closest parallel to the Ephesian exorcists' misuse of the name of Jesus appears in a magical papyrus belonging to the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris, which contains the adjuration: "I adjure you by Jesus, the God of the Hebrews." - F. F. Bruce, The Book of the Acts, Eerdmans Publishing Co. 1988, p. 368.

Also the Romans im sure wernt in the business of protecting 'anything' relating to Jesus anything found would of been destroyed .

Juilius ceaser a God as was Caligula , Rome was a mixed bag of pagan Gods and the Roman thought they were Gods , yes ...Jesus is a different story , even pontius pilate referred to him as the king of the jews and a model prisoner ...

My question is this , if Jesus didnt exist Why do many historians report on him heresay or not , there was a new strong religion of which was fast threatning Rome ...seems like alot of information to be circulating about no-one ...

This is what Atheists like to do tho in my opinion , you want testable proof as with science , yet your Atheism boils down to BELIEF in science its one or the other , you cant say Atheism is not believing in anything ...

You,s have plenty of records of histroians about jesus which you,s dismiss , yet you,s quickly beleive A Universe from Nothing without any proof ...

Tell me whats more miraculas ? Life form Non-life or a creator walking on the water he created ?

Theres also many different accounts about the 'eclipse' that shouldnt of happened on the day of crusifiction and the earthquake from various sources ...

[ Unlike the mythical Jesus Christ, we know what Caesar (who lived 100 years before Jesus) looked like (statues and paintings) ]

that statement is totally misleading , yes of course the Romans had statues , Christians were against worshiping idols so , really ?? Its not hard to see why no STATUE of jesus would exist and if there was the Romans would of destroyed it unlike mithra that the Romans worshiped .

[The name Jesus was decided upon by Constantine at the Council of Nicaea long after the supposed death of the savior/god.]

That is just a blatant lie , misinformation at the very best , what/where is your source for that gem ?

What was discussed in 325 was wether Jesus was divine or the son of , eg trinity and the date of Easter etc which had nothing to do with Christ , BUT there is NO mention anywhere that a NAME was chosen as you have said ?

Right there is a blatant attempt at misleading the uninformed and a warning that people need to do their own research and certainly not beleive the false rebuttals of Atheists , the Various creeds were debates amongst men and there pagan backgrounds it wasnt over specific doctrine , later manuscripts prove the bible has not been tampered with , the truth and meaning has remained intact regardless of constatine or other relgious leaders .

Needs to be some thinking with your arguments .

What evidence do you have to Prove that Christ did not exist?

Proving a negative is generally not a possible venture. For example, no one can prove that invisible flowers do not exist. We can only conclude, based on evidence, if a particular flower does indeed exist or have existed. Absence of proof 'for' something is good enough to assume that the given 'something' is not real/true like so. Simple as.

I am always bewildered by the Athiest's infatuation with God and religion, the seemingly neverending quest to prove and disprove negatives, and the obsession with what they "know" is to be true. If God doesn't exist, and you are absoutely certain of it, by your own definition you are attempting to prove a negative. Why is there a need to promote atheism? What compels the "Atheist Community" to spread their message and attempt to change the minds of those who don't hold the same beliefs? If you know that you are right, why do you care if I'm wrong? If you can't prove a negative, why try so hard to do so? I think that atheist's do believe in something greater than their own ego's, but fear of commitment to the idea brings you all together on websites such as this. In your quest for no answers...Godspeed my brother.

Atheism is the lack of belief in gods. We're not trying to prove a negative.

Some of us are against religion because of all of the harm it has done.

From: Michael Michael (Posted Jun 13, 2014 at 6:28 pm) Michael Michael said, "I am always bewildered by the Athiest's infatuation with God and religion,"

Linda said, I am always bewildered by the theists ignorance of their own religion or any religion, yet they want to argue about it. Intelligent people examine the information and evidence before they make a decision.

Michael Michael said, "the seemingly neverending quest to prove and disprove negatives, and the obsession with what they "know" is to be true."

Linda said, I think you have things backwards; it's the Christians who worship a God for which there is no evidence. Talk about being obsessed with a negative.

Michael Michael said, "If God doesn't exist, and you are absoutely certain of it, by your own definition you are attempting to prove a negative."

Linda said, atheists are rejecting a proposition that is made without evidence; they are not trying to prove anything.

Michael Michael said, "Why is there a need to promote atheism? What compels the "Atheist Community" to spread their message and attempt to change the minds of those who don't hold the same beliefs?"

Linda said, The atheists who write books and appear on programs have just as much right to express what they think as anyone else does. Christians don't think they do and that's why they call; it's not to ask a questions, discuss information or to educate themselves, it's to proselytize to the atheists. Why are they so stupid that they continue to believe something that is devoid of logic or evidence?

Michael Michael said, "If you know that you are right, why do you care if I'm wrong? If you can't prove a negative, why try so hard to do so?"

Linda said, Are you kidding? Atheists are on every TV station on Sunday screaming about atheism I suppose?

Michael Michael said, "I think that atheist's do believe in something greater than their own ego's, but fear of commitment to the idea brings you all together on websites such as this. In your quest for no answers...Godspeed my brother."

Linda said, What a hypocrite. I'm sure you won't respond because most fanatics are a cowards who only want to preach. Atheists don't have to believe what you believe even if you think they don't have a right not to believe. You have been pumped up so much by fellow fanatics that you can't see anything for your inflated head and ego. Guess what? You are not special you are just a jerk. When you die you will go nowhere and (absoutely) is not a word and (neverending) is two words.

...Tacitus (c. 56-c. 117), writing c. 116, included in his Annals a mention of Christianity and "Christus", the Latinized Greek translation of the Hebrew word "Messiah". In describing Nero's persecution of Christians following the Great Fire of Rome c. 64, he wrote:

"Nero fastened the guilt of starting the blaze and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius 14-37 at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."

Biblical scholar Bart D. Ehrman wrote that: "Tacitus's report confirms what we know from other sources, that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, sometime during Tiberius's reign."

Richard Carrier writes "it is inconceivable that there were any records of Jesus for Tacitus to consult in Rome (for many reasons, not the least of which being that Rome's capitol had burned to the ground more than once in the interim), and even less conceivable that he would have dug through them even if they existed It would simply be too easy to just ask a Christian--or a colleague who had done so there can be no doubt that what Pliny discovered from Christians he had interrogated was passed on to Tacitus."...

Rome Burned to the ground INTERESTING , LINDA failed to metion this ??

AND

" THE ACTS OF PILIATE " or " THE GOSPEL OF NICODEMUS"

Pontius Pilate (1 BC - circa AD 37) was the fifth Roman procurator of Judea (AD 26 - 36 ) under Emperor Tiberius, who sentenced Jesus to death by crucifixion. The quotes below refer to the Acts of Pontius Pilate. The existence of the Acts of Pontius Pilate is strongly supported by Epiphanius (Heresies 50.1), Justin Martyr (First Apology, A.D. 150) and Tertullian (Apology, A.D. 200). The Acts of Pontius Pilate were kept in the Roman archives (Commentarii principis) as stated in the following quote. The ancient Romans were scrupulously careful to preserve the memory of all remarkable events which happened in the city; and this was done either in their "Acts of the Senate" (Acts Senatus), or in the "Daily Acts of the People" (Acta Diurna Populi), which were diligently made and kept at Rome . . . In like manner it was customary for the governors of provinces to send to the emperor an account of remarkable transactions that occurred in the places where they resided, which were preserved in the "Acts of" their respective governments . . . we find, long before the time of Eusebius [3rd century], that the primitive Christians, in their disputes with the Gentiles, appealed to these "Acts of Pilate" . . . Thus, Justin Martyr, in his first "Apology" for the Christians, which was presented to the Emperor Antoninus Pius [A.D. 138-161] and the senate of Rome, about the year [A.D.] 140, having mentioned the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and some of its attendant circumstances, adds, "And these things were done, you may know from the 'Acts' made in the time of Pontius Pilate." [1]

It should be noted that some believe a fraudulent version of the Acts of Pilate was circulated later in the fourth and fifth centuries. This should not be confused with the original document that was generated in the first century, archived in Rome and was available to Caesar Antoninus Pius and the Roman Senate. Otherwise, Justin Martyr's appeal to the Acts of Pilate in his First Apology would have lacked credibility. Both Justin Martyr (A.D. 150) and Tertullian (A.D. 200) refer to the document much earlier that the fradulent version.[2]

Reference To Jesus Christ And again in other words, through another prophet, He says, "They pierced My hands and My feet, and for My vesture they cast lots." And indeed David, the king and prophet, who uttered these things, suffered none of them; but Jesus Christ stretched forth His hands, being crucified by the Jews speaking against Him, and denying that He was the Christ. And as the prophet spoke, they tormented Him, and set Him on the judgment-seat, and said, Judge us. And the expression, "They pierced my hands and my feet," was used in reference to the nails of the cross which were fixed in His hands and feet. And after He was crucified they cast lots upon His vesture, and they that crucified Him parted it among them. And that these things did happen, you can ascertain from the Acts of Pontius Pilate. - Justin Martyr, First Apology 35 And that it was predicted that our Christ should heal all diseases and raise the dead, hear what was said. There are these words: "At His coming the lame shall leap as an hart, and the tongue of the stammerer shall be clear speaking: the blind shall see, and the lepers shall be cleansed; and the dead shall rise, and walk about." And that He did those things, you can learn from the Acts of Pontius Pilate. - Justin Martyr, First Apology 48

Most schollars from what ive researched dont deny jesus's existance , maybe LINDA is looking in the wrong place ?

And if Rome burnt to the ground im sure alot of documents were lost ??

http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/The_Three_Acts_of_Pilate.htm

Phlegon: Julius Africanus also quoted another secular scholar whose works are now lost. Phlegon wrote a history called Chronicles. Phlegon also comments on the darkness at the time of Christ's crucifixion: "During the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon." Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18.1

Mara Bar-Serapion: Syrian stoic philosopher who wrote a letter from prison to his son circa 70AD. He compares Jesus to the philosophers Socrates and Pythagoras.

Lucian of Samosate: Greek satirist later half of 2nd century spoke scornfully of Christ and the Christians but never argued that Jesus never existed. "The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day, the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account..." The Death of Peregrine, 11-13

9.The Babylonian Talmud: "It has been taught: On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out, in front of him, for 40 days (saying): 'He is going to be stoned, because he practiced sorcery and enticed and led Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead in his behalf.' But, not having found anything in his favor, they hanged him on the eve of Passover." Sanhedrin 43a; df.t.Sanh. 10:11; y. Sanh. 7:12; Tg. Esther 7:9 (Another version of this text reads: "Yeshu the Nazarene." Yeshu or Yehoshua is Hebrew (or Aramaic) for Jesus in English this name is also translated "Joshua." The Old Testament hero bore the same name as Jesus the Messiah. "Hanged" is another way of referring to a crucifixion; see Luke 23:39 and Galatians 3:13

Also when the jeruselum temple was destroyed so were the records , from what we do have its certain Jesus existed , the Mithra , horus blah blah claims are just plain misinformation ...

You're entitled to have your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts. Apologist's facts are not where the true facts are found. The facts can be found in scholarly works written by unbiased experts.

Unknown authors wrote the Gospels forty to seventy years after the supposed death of Jesus. There are no eyewitness accounts - and the names given the Gospels are just titles. There are no originals and nobody knows what was originally written.

There are no writings by any eyewitnesses. It is obvious that documents written by (unknown) authors who were not eyewitnesses at least close to half a century after the death of Jesus could not be reliable testimonies of a Jesus or the events involving his life. The time lapse (among other things) between the written account and the alleged events is reason enough to doubt the stories.

The Apostle Paul claims in 1st Corinthians the 15th chapter that he had seen Jesus in a vision after he had died. Visions are very unreliable evidence. Furthermore, eyewitnesses did not write the gospel accounts. On top of that there are no writings of the so-called eyewitnesses.

Where do you get your information? There are no Roman records (from the actual time period) of a Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus.There is no official Roman record of Jesus Crucifixion. All documents about Jesus were written well after the life of the alleged Jesus/god by unknown authors.

The information and dates of these (so-called) historical writings show they could not serve as reliable evidence for a historical Jesus/god, simply because they all came from hearsay accounts, which means these writings didn't come from a witness' own knowledge of a Jesus/god. There are no accounts by eyewitnesses it is all hearsay.

Josephus' birth in 37 C.E., well after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus, puts him out of range of an eyewitness account. He wrote in 93 C.E., after the first gospels were written. Most scholars who have examined the writing say it is forgery,

Pliny the Younger, a Roman official, born in 62 C.E. His letter about the Christians only shows that he got his information from Christian believers themselves. Regardless, his birth date puts him out of the range of eyewitness accounts.

Tacitus - Roman historian's born 64 C.E., well after the alleged life of Jesus. He gives a brief mention of a "Christus" in his writings around 109 C.E. He gives no source for his material. Although many have disputed the authenticity of Tacitus' mention of Jesus, the very fact that his birth happened after the alleged Jesus and wrote the Annals during the formation of Christianity, shows that his writing can only provide us with hearsay accounts.

Suetonius, a Roman historian, born in 69 C.E. mentions "Chrestus," a common name. No scholar believes this is a reference to Jesus Christ- Christ is not a name, but even if Seutonius had meant "Christ," it still says nothing about a real Jesus. Just like all the others, Suetonius' birth occurred well after the purported Jesus. Again, only hearsay.

The story of Osiris, Isis and Heru was a story of antiquity, which had been told thousands of years before the Christian version of Jesus. Christians who regurgitated these ancient pagan myths as divine phenomena believed that would give them authority over other faiths.

Some Christians use brief portions of the Talmud, (a collection of Jewish civil a religious law, including commentaries on the Torah), as evidence for Jesus. They claim that Yeshu (a common name in Jewish literature) in the Talmud refers to Jesus. However, this Jesus, actually depicts a disciple of Jehoshua Ben-Perachia at least a century before the alleged Christian Jesus. The Palestinian Talmud was written between the 3rd and 5th century C.E., and the Babylonian Talmud between the 3rd and 6th century C.E., at least two centuries after the alleged crucifixion. It is a combo Christian - pagan legend; it is not evidence for a historical Jesus.

I guess you also think it's perfectly normal that a person described as highly intelligent never wrote anything. Even if it makes sense to you that there were no artifacts of Jesus a god but there was of Caesar who was also made a god. It's not likely. Unlike the mythical Jesus Christ, we know what Caesar (who lived 100 years before Jesus) looked like (statues and paintings) and we have a complete history of his life. We have words written by Caesar himself and words written by his friends and his enemies. Artifacts confirm his life and death. These are called artifacts (the things required to prove that someone ever lived) and we have no artifacts for Jesus/god who was the most important figure in the history of the world according to the myth.

There is an excellent witness to the events in Judaea in the first half of the first century AD, Philo of Alexandria. Philo did not write one word about Jesus or Christianity.

There were never 12 disciples or a master. The story was invented to legitimize the claims of the early churches. The original Mary was fashioned on pagan goddesses and she was not a virgin. Unlike Jesus and Mary a real historical figures, long before Jesus, Julius Caesar has a mass of evidence.

Nothing in Christianity was original it had all been in the literature for centuries. When the Jews were defeated and the temple at Jerusalem was utterly destroyed that gave the Christian churches the ability to take over and prevail.

According to the bible when Jesus was crucified the heavens and earth affirmed his deity, causing a three-hour eclipse of the sun over all the earth. Luke 23:44-45, there occurred "about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour, and the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst." Yet not a single mention of such a three hour ecliptic event got recorded by anyone, including the astronomers and astrologers, anywhere in the world, including Pliny the Elder and Seneca who both recorded eclipses from other dates. Solar eclipses can't occur during a full moon and Passovers always occur during full moons. Not a single contemporary person writes about the earthquake described in Matthew 27:51-54 where the earth shook, rocks were rent, and graves opened.

There was an earthquake causing Jerusalem's temple curtain to be split into, and many Jewish saints resurrected from their graves appearing to the people in Jerusalem. Within three days, the Son of God, defeated Satan, rose from the dead appeared to his disciples, then ascended into heaven. A story that would not of escaped the attention of the historians worldwide. Scholars who do objective investigations into history have found no confirmation (outside of biblical) of this story in the writings of non-Christian Jewish, Greek, and Roman writers.

Philo Judaeus (contemporary historian I mentioned) wrote detailed accounts of the Jewish events that occurred in the surrounding area. Not once, in all of his volumes of writings, is a single account of a Jesus. There is no mention of Jesus in Seneca's writings, or from the historian Pliny the Elder. If a figure as famous as the Gospels claim Jesus was existed at the same time of these historians, why did none of them ever hear of Him? Not one Jewish, Greek, or Roman writer, even those who lived in the Middle East, much less anywhere else on the earth, who ever mention him during his supposed life time.

Paul admits that he did not know Jesus during Jesus' lifetime. All of Paul's theology is based on his own revelations, or visions. There is nothing in all of Paul's writings that state he ever met the living Jesus, and he does not talk about Jesus' life on earth. His accounts about a Jesus had to have come from visions or hearsay. Paul's visions, and most of his theology, can be found in Mithraism. In Mithraism, the central figure is the mythical Mithras, who died for the sins of mankind and was resurrected. Believers in Mithras were rewarded with eternal life. Part of the Mithraic communion liturgy included the words, "He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made one with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation." Mithraism had included the ritual a long time before Christ was born. Mithraism originated in the city of Tarsus in Cilicia, the place the apostle Paul came from.

The apostle Paul claims that he got the instructions for the Lord's Supper directly from Jesus. The Lord's supper was not invented by Paul, but was borrowed by him from Mithraism, the mystery religion that existed long before Christianity and was Christianity's chief competitor up until the time of Constantine. The apostle Paul never mentions the virgin birth. Paul says that Jesus was "born of a woman," (not a virgin woman) Galatians 4:4. Why would he leave out this amazing miracle?

When Judas betrayed Jesus, according to Matthew 26:15, the chief priests "weighed out thirty pieces of silver" to give to Judas. In Jesus' time, minted coins were used - currency was not "weighed out." There were no "pieces of silver" used as currency in the supposed time of Jesus - they had gone out of circulation about 300 years before. Matthew 27:39 and Mark 15:27 say Jesus was crucified between two thieves. It is a historical fact that the Romans did not crucify thieves.

The Gospels represent Jesus as a exalted celebrated prophet, with great multitudes of people who knew about him, including the greatest Jewish high priests and the Roman authorities of the area, and not one person records his existence during his lifetime. The Gospels were not written in Jesus lifetime or a named eyewitness' written account that has ever existed.

In modern scholarship the best historians and Christian apologists can use only what documents they have available to them. If they only have hearsay accounts without evidence then they haven't got history they have myth.

REFERENCE: The New Testament. Most Bibles, when introducing the Gospels, as well as other writings that are contained in the canon, inform that the authors are anonymous and unknown.

REFERENCE: Mithraism The Book - David Ulansey, 'The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries', in which he convincingly shows that Mithraism originated in the city of Tarsus in Cilicia. That is where Paul of Tarsus came from.

REFERENCE: The Bible - Paul never cites the Gospels because the Gospels come much later. More proof of that is that Paul never refers to them.

REFERENCE: This is a book - 'The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence' - backs up no historian from his era wrote a single word about the Jesus. Also there is an abidance of scholarly work on this subject.

REFERENCE: The Bible - Look at the Gospel of Mark: he knows nothing of the virgin birth, of the Sermon on the Mount, of the Lord's prayer, or of other important facts of the supposed life of Christ. Matthew and Luke copied Mark and added this stuff.

REFERENCES: The Bible - Dead Sea Scrolls. Matthew 5:1, 6:9-13 and 7:28 - Jesus delivered the Lord's Prayer during the Sermon on the Mount before the multitudes. Luke 11:1-4 he delivered it before the disciples alone, and not as part of the Sermon on the Mount. But the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the Sermon on the Mount and The Lords Prayer existed hundreds of years before the supposed life of Jesus.

REFERENCE: Erasmus, four hundred years ago, said the Gospels were originally written in Greek. The Gospel of John is largely composed of the speculations of Greek philosophy.

REFERENCE: The Bible - Matthew 2:1 says Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the Great, but Luke 2:2 says Jesus was born during the first census in Israel, while Quirinius was governor of Syria. Herod died in March of 4 BC and the census took place in 6 and 7 AD, about 10 years after Herod's death. Luke says this was the first census that took place under Quirinius after Herod's kingdom had been divided between his three sons in 4 B.C. The Jewish historian Josephus recorded that Herod the Great died in 4 BC.

REFERENCE: Josephus (Jewish Historian) says that Varus was governor of Syria at Herod's death and Varus was governor in 4 B.C.

REFERENCE: Historians I gave you the names of the historians that were eyewitnesses that didn't record a thing about the events in the Bible. I named the historians that lived at the time that didn't record Herod killed all babies up to two years old in Bethlehem.

Ugarit - Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic by Frank Cross - Cambridge Harvard University Press. The book has the history of religion of Israel compared to Ugaritic texts.

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus. There is not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings.

Follow us on:

twitter facebook meetup

ustream.tv

From the officers:

The ACA Lecture Series continues Sunday, February 4th, 12:15pm at the Austin History Center, 9th and Guadaupe. Chase Hunter will speak on "Inside Scientology 2: the Sea Org". The lecture is free and open to the public. The building opens at noon.