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Atheist Experience
Can't you try the argument of a hypothetical Savior on the believers?


Believer thinks that an improbable event that actually took place (e.g. surviving of bullet in head) did so because God intervened. But they cannot know what would have happened otherwise (hence they also can't know if God intervened at all). Same thing is true for their prayers: If an event prayed for does happen, they cannot say "my prayer worked" without implying that they know what would have happened otherwise.

They just cannot know what would have happened otherwise. Same thing for throwing a coin: Even if you know that the probability is 50/50, so 100,000 coin throws will result in about 50,000 heads and 50,000 tails, you can not - really under no circumstances at all - predict with certainty the outcome of the next throw. (Side note: Which I find to be a mind-boggling property of reality.)

Now, imagine that there would be a hypothetical Savior coming to Earth one day. Second Coming of Jesus, arrival of the true God, whatever. Something.

Would this Savior effect that everything becomes perfect? Would God purify the world? Yes he would. Or if he takes people to heaven, doesn't matter.

What I am going for here is this: Would this Savior effect that people lose their misconceptions? Would he show people truth versus fantasy? Would he bring sanity to every single mind?

Yes, he would. This should be accepted by a religious believer.

So, to close the circle: If the believer who can not know how the outcome of the situation would have been without God's intervention just want to believe it for the purpose of feel-good and what have you - does this believer then not work in direct opposition to the Savior?

I can only say that we have all witnessed good and bad incidents that people have used as proof of miraculous intervention from God. Now, I can see why people think that someone being shot in the head and living is pretty remarkable, but why is getting shot in the head at all a miracle. Wouldn't it be a better miracle if God kept them from getting shot in the head period? I mean if the bullet just bounced off their forehead.

Every oval shaped stain is the miraculous appearance of the Virgin Mary? Including those that don't even look human? Why is it a better miracle for the image of Jesus or Mary to appear on; oh, let's say a grape, than to clean up the whole world of toxic pollutants?

Then there are the Virgin Mary statues that cry real tears and the paintings of the crucifixion that drip blood.

All I can say is what a waste of miraculous capabilities.

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