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Atheist Experience
Sacrifice

I heard once on the show that criticized the sacrifice that took place when Jesus died for the sins of humanity. But, how can an atheist find this deplorable and yet have a reverence for those Americans who willfully put themselves in harms way for other Americans to live free? I can understand why God sacrificing himself to himself seems ridiculous, but there is a lot we supposedly do not understand about god. But, if god is holy and the sacrifice it took had to be holy does it not make sense? We seems to explain these details in the sense that we can understand them via natural means. But there are things we shall never comprehend. If a god existed would it not be feasible that this would make sense?

The "sacrifice" was a little pain to a god, if you also claim that "Jesus Lives" and "Jesus is Lord". If he was a man, then I can empathize, but I'll always empathize more with the millions of people that have been killed supposedly to avenge Jesus' death, especially if you want to claim that "Jesus died (by God's master plan) for your sins".

I think this cartoon nails it succinctly:

http://atheist-community.org/atheisteve/?id=42

If I am not mistaken Jesus was God made flesh. At least that is what is said.

He was "man" just when you're supposed to empathize with his suffering, but he's a "god" when you're supposed to follow him to get your trip to heaven. Classic bait and switch.

From: Vernon I heard once on the show that criticized the sacrifice that took place when Jesus died for the sins of humanity. But, how can an atheist find this deplorable and yet have a reverence for those Americans who willfully put themselves in harms way for other Americans to live free? I can understand why God sacrificing himself to himself seems ridiculous, but there is a lot we supposedly do not understand about god. But, if god is holy and the sacrifice it took had to be holy does it not make sense? We seems to explain these details in the sense that we can understand them via natural means. But there are things we shall never comprehend. If a god existed would it not be feasible that this would make sense?

Jesus did not die for the sins of humanity. If he had then there would not be a condition attached that excludes a huge percentage of humans--"...for whomever believeth in him..." if he had died for the sins of all humanity then everyone would go to heaven when they died. It would not matter what you believed, or didn't believe, just as you have no say in being born, you would have no say in being "reborn". Jesus paid your debt and it wouldn't matter if you knew about or accepted the payment or worshipped Baal or were a godless atheist heathen, your debt is gone. See ya on the other side...

As to soldiers dying being comparable to Jesus's actions. Nope, not even close. A soldier sacrificing himself for his fellow soldiers is far, far greater a sacrifice than what Jesus did. Jesus had perfect knowledge of god, the afterlife, and his inevitable reward. A soldier throwing himself on a hand grenade has no such "safety net" and acts selflessly without regard to religion or reward. He is giving up all he knows and all he will ever have.

And the premise for the whole thing is all fucked up. God is perfect and loving then designs humans who are imperfect and blames them for their imperfection such that they are damned to endless torment in Hell unless someone perfect, him somehow as his son, "dies" as payment for something that he set in motion to begin with when he could have just as easily just forgiven them their transgressions and everybody gets a lolly-pop and a ride on the heavenly carousel forever and ever and ever...amen.

Some Christian flavors make it worse when they say that humans can't resist sin. We are, therefore, sinning robots. We are programmed to sin. God made us that way and holds that against us. Why not make us capable of resisting sin? No, make it that we are capable of resisting sin and make that an inheritable trait that is advantageous to our survival. Make is so that if you can't resist sin then you're probably going to die before passing on your propensity to sin. In a few hundred thousand generations most people would be very unsinnery. And without sin, no reason to spill the blood of an innocent. Presto-chango! I've gotten rid of the necessity of Jesus.

Or he could just judge each of our lives within the context of our existence and determine who merits reward and who merits punishment.

Or he could say that all fall short and each of us will spend some time in Hell cleansing up, as it were, with the sentence duration being equitable based upon the sins committed. That way if you were a pretty horrid sinner, like being an atheist, you'd have to spend a couple of million years being buggered by a try-furcated barbed penis-equipped demon---but you'd eventually pay your debt to God and get to ride the carousel. Whee!

You merely assert that a soldiers sacrifice is greater with out any foundation to say so. You should take your emotions pout of the equation so to reason better.

From: Vernon You merely assert that a soldiers sacrifice is greater with out any foundation to say so. You should take your emotions pout of the equation so to reason better.

I did provide a foundation for my claim--it concerns actions with and without the perfect knowledge of eternal reward as well as the ability to die.

Essentially, without emotions, your God decided to go to earth and live as a contemporaneous human for a little while and then return to heaven. A god can't die. Even if the body he "inhabits" can die, that death is merely symbolic and doesn't adversely affect god. A death that doesn't have any affect isn't a sacrifice. God knew that his place was in heaven--he was never meant to exist as a human forever and his doing so was purposeful and clinically predetermined. You have to give something up worth having to consider it a sacrifice. God didn't do that. God can always reanimate a body and become human again. Even if just for a weekend in Vegas.

Essentially, without emotion, a soldier who throws himself on a hand grenade can die. That death has a lasting, and permanent affect on him. He willingly dies without knowledge of what happens to him after death. He sacrifices himself so that others might live by giving up his only life. He literally gives up everything he is, everything he ever will be, all that he has, all that he will ever have, *without* the perfect knowledge of an eternal reward. He will never be alive again. He can never reanimate and go to Vegas.

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