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If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong

We live in a twisted world, where right is wrong and wrong reigns supreme. It is a chilling fact that most of the world's leaders believe in nonsensical fairytales about the nature of reality. They believe in Gods that do not exist, and religions that could not possibly be true. We are driven to war after war, violence on top of violence to appease madmen who believe in gory mythologies. These men are called Christians, Muslims and Jews.

Osama bin Laden is insane. He believes God whispered in the ear of Mohammed 1,400 years ago about how he should conquer Arabia. Mohammed was a pure charlatan -- and a good one at that. He makes present religious frauds like Pat Robertson look like amateurs.

He said God told him to have sex with as many of the women he met as possible. I'm sorry, I meant to say "take them as wives." God told him to kill all other tribes that stood in his way or that would not placate him with assurances of loyalty or bribes. God told him, conveniently, that everyone should follow him and never question a word he said.

He sold this bag of goods to the blithering idiots who lived in the Arabian Peninsula at the time. If that weren't shockingly stupid enough, over a billion people continue to believe the convenient lies that Mohammed told all that time ago -- to this very day.

We live in a world full of insane people. Sanity is an island battered in an ocean of frothing delusion. The people who believe in science are the minority. The people who believe in bloody fairytales are the overwhelming majority.

George W. Bush is the most powerful man alive. He is a class A imbecile. He is far less intelligent than the average Christian. But like most of the others, he believes Jesus died for his sins. That idea is so perverse and devoid of logic it should shock the conscience. Instead, it gets him elected, and earns him the reverence of a great percentage of America. America! The most advanced country in the world -- run by a bunch of villagers who still believe Santa Claus is going to save them.

There is no damn Easter Bunny. There is no Jesus waiting to return. Moses never even existed. These were all convenient lies from the men of those times to gain power. Their actions were rational -- they wanted to deceive their brethren so that they could amass power. I get their motivations. But I cannot, for the life of me, understand our motivations, thousands of years later, still following the conmen of yesteryear into our gory, bloody, violent end.

Jesus is said to have said on the cross, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Because Jesus was insane and the God he thought would rescue him did not exist. And he died on that cross like a fool. He fancied himself the son of God and he could barely convince twelve men to follow him at a time when the world was full of superstition.

Excellent marketing by some of his followers would later rescue his botched effort. How many people saw his miracles? One? Twelve? Eighty? Why didn't he show the whole world? Not because this is some giant pop quiz by God to test us -- but because he did not perform any miracles!

Even his apostles can't agree on what miracles he supposedly carried out or when he carried them out. Or whether he returned after death or he didn't. Whether they saw him in person or just as a vision. Rational human beings shouldn't believe this kind of nonsense. Yet most of the world does.

If a man today killed his only son to show how much he loved other people, he would be considered a madman, locked in jail and earn society's contempt. Yet we think this is some sort of noble act by our Father in Heaven.

In Heaven? What, with the harps and the winged angels and the 72 virgins? My God, how stupid do you have to be to believe that?

I know most of you don't actually read your religious texts, and when you do, you assiduously try to avoid the parts that make no sense whatsoever or hide underneath the comforting grasp of your religious leaders who have concocted a bunch of circular logic (a crime to even use that word in regards to Christianity, Islam or Judaism) to shield you from the obvious folly of the written text.

So, I'm not calling you stupid if you haven't really read the material. And I know how powerful brainwashing is. We all received it when we were young and it is exceedingly difficult to break its grasp. But people dance around the issue out of politeness because they don't want to call you what you are -- ignorant.

There are a lot of people I love dearly and respect wholeheartedly who believe in religion. I hate to do this to them. But we have killed far too many people, wasted far too much time on this nonsense for us to keep going in this direction for fear of offense.

Jesus was a lunatic. God is not coming to your rescue. He hasn't come to anyone's rescue in thousands of years, including Jesus. Mohammed was a power hungry, scam artist and ruthless conqueror. Moses and Abraham were figments of the imagination of some long dead rabbi. He would probably laugh his ass off at all of you who still believe the fairytales he made up thousands of years ago. He probably wouldn't even believe it if you told him.

Did I mention Judaism? The chosen people? Come on, get off it. People walk around in clothes from 18th century Russia, thinking they have been chosen by God when they look like a bunch of jackasses. I'm tired of all the deaths because we did not want to give offense. Orthodox Jews are wrong and ridiculous.

As are the orthodox and fundamentalists of all of the religions. It says in the Bible that it is an abomination to wear clothes made of two different cloths or to eat shellfish. If you think God will hate you because you mixed wool and linen or because you ate some shrimp, you are insane.

How long are we going to dance around the 800-pound gorilla in the room? The world is run by madmen. It's not just Bush and bin Laden. It is the leader of all of the countries in the Middle East, almost all of the Americas and most of the rest of the world.

Have I offended you? That's too bad. Stop killing each other in the name of false and ridiculous Gods and I will stop ridiculing you. Trust me, your offense is much worse than mine.

Right now as you read this, there are ignorant, hateful Muslims teaching other ignorant Muslims how to put on a suicide belt. There are orthodox Jews telling other Jews how they must never leave their "holy land" no matter what the consequences are to other human beings. They assure their followers -- remember, they are not the chosen ones, we are. If we crush and oppress them, don't worry, God will excuse it, and even desires it, because He is on our side.

There are maniacal Christians who are praying for the end of time. Who are hoping that most of the world's population is wiped off the face of the Earth by their vengeful and murderous God. Whom they believe is, ironically, a loving God. Unless, of course, you make the fatal mistake of not kissing his ass and appeasing him, in which case he will slaughter you and condemn you to eternal torture. What kind of sick people believe this?

The kind who live next to you. The kind who voted for George Bush. The kind who send their religious leaders to the White House to argue against even-handedness in the Middle East because it would prevent their sick prophecy. The kind who have undue influence over how we use the greatest and most lethal army ever built by man.

If you don't want to be called ignorant or misinformed, then get informed. Learn the real nature of our universe and put aside old wives tales about resurrected Gods, omniscient prophets and a guy who could split the Red Sea but couldn't find where he's going in the desert for forty years.

Cenk's topic - "If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong"

If you think this has something to do with atheism your wrong. Your topic has nothing to do with atheism since atheists do not single out any religion. Atheists do not believe in god/gods. They only defend themselves with counter arguments when people try to force their religion on them.

Cenk said, "We live in a twisted world, where right is wrong and wrong reigns supreme. It is a chilling fact that most of the world's leaders believe in nonsensical fairytales about the nature of reality. They believe in Gods that do not exist, and religions that could not possibly be true. We are driven to war after war, violence on top of violence to appease madmen who believe in gory mythologies. These men are called Christians, Muslims and Jews."

The most powerful countries on earth are not Christian, Muslims or Jewish. The most advanced countries with the fastest growing economies are the least religious.

Cenk said, "Osama bin Laden is insane. He believes God whispered in the ear of Mohammed 1,400 years ago about how he should conquer Arabia. Mohammed was a pure charlatan -- and a good one at that. He makes present religious frauds like Pat Robertson look like amateurs."

That, and $2.00 will get you a cup of coffee.

Cenk said, "He said God told him to have sex with as many of the women he met as possible. I'm sorry, I meant to say "take them as wives." God told him to kill all other tribes that stood in his way or that would not placate him with assurances of loyalty or bribes. God told him, conveniently, that everyone should follow him and never question a word he said."

That's what all religions are based on the exploitation of women first, and then everyone else.

Cenk said, "He sold this bag of goods to the blithering idiots who lived in the Arabian Peninsula at the time. If that weren't shockingly stupid enough, over a billion people continue to believe the convenient lies that Mohammed told all that time ago -- to this very day."

Maybe they weren't open-minded like you. Only a blithering idiot would be waiting on the Rapture? So, they sure wouldn't be alone if they believe ridiculous bullshit. Atheists do not seek people out in order to insult them. It's when they get on an atheist message board telling atheists that they need to be "open-minded" that they get insulted.

Cenk said, "We live in a world full of insane people. Sanity is an island battered in an ocean of frothing delusion. The people who believe in science are the minority. The people who believe in bloody fairytales are the overwhelming majority."

That is not true. Most of the advanced countries are not religious. The least religious countries in the world are; New Zealand, Denmark, Sweden and they are among the happiest nations on earth. Estonia is the least religious country in the world, with a "believer index" of just 14 percent, it became one of the world's fast-growing economies after it gained its independence from the Soviet Union in 1991. Sweden is the second least religious country, with only 17 percent claiming any form of religious conviction. Denmark and Norway are among the least religious countries, including Hong Kong, Japan and France. These are among the most advanced and fastest growing economies. Polls reveal that religion is most important to people in poor countries. Of the 143 countries surveyed, Egypt was at the top, where 100 per cent of the respondents believe that religion was an important part of their lives.

Cenk said, "George W. Bush is the most powerful man alive. He is a class A imbecile. He is far less intelligent than the average Christian. But like most of the others, he believes Jesus died for his sins. That idea is so perverse and devoid of logic it should shock the conscience. Instead, it gets him elected, and earns him the reverence of a great percentage of America."

If most Christians are smarter than Bush why did most of them vote for him? George W. Bush is not the President and it is doubtful that he was ever the most powerful man alive. If you think that the richest or most powerful country on earth is the United States, you were wrong. It may be China. If deficits matter, the US is the poorest country in the world.

The US has the biggest deficit in the world, and all of this happened during a Republican administration. If you look at Countries without deficits, the United States ranks 126, between Lebanon and Australia.

The US has the biggest government deficit, is the biggest debtor, and has one of the lowest saving levels in the world. It is still a world power only because the United States spends roughly 10 times more than the next biggest spending countries of the world to finance its deficits. The external debt of the US is $12,250,000,000,000, so all the military might of the US is on borrowed money. The Soviet Union was not able to defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan, even after more than 10 years of conflict (a conflict that took the Soviet Union to its demise). Continuing the war in Iraq and Afghanistan will certainly bring the demise of the United States. We need to be concerned about how long it will take other countries (rich countries) to stop lending us money. It is time to be patriotic for real and demand that we get off the "coarse" the Bush administration put the U.S. on, in the name of patriotism.

Cenk said, "America! The most advanced country in the world -- run by a bunch of villagers who still believe Santa Claus is going to save them."

You need to do research prior to comment. America is not the most advanced country in the world. Denmark is actually the most technologically advanced country in the world, and one of the least religious. Americans believe a lot of bullshit. America has stolen just as much technology as anyone has. The Germans invented the car. Did this information come out of a box of Cracker Jacks, because if it did you should ask for your money back? It isn't informative, educational or enlightening.

Cenk said, "There is no damn Easter Bunny. There is no Jesus waiting to return. Moses never even existed. These were all convenient lies from the men of those times to gain power."

I don't think anyone should be too worried about the Easter Bunny, you've been wrong about most everything, maybe you're wrong about the Easter Bunny.

Cenk said, "Their actions were rational -- they wanted to deceive their brethren so that they could amass power. I get their motivations. But I cannot, for the life of me, understand our motivations, thousands of years later, still following the conmen of yesteryear into our gory, bloody, violent end."

Sorry to have to inform you that not all the leaders in the world have a religion, and there are more than three religions, and those that you seem to be focused on are not the in the most advanced countries.

Cenk said, "Jesus is said to have said on the cross, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Because Jesus was insane and the God he thought would rescue him did not exist. And he died on that cross like a fool. He fancied himself the son of God and he could barely convince twelve men to follow him at a time when the world was full of superstition."

"He" never existed and there are no eyewitnesses to anything concerning Jesus. There are also no original manuscripts of any apostles.

Cenk said, "Excellent marketing by some of his followers would later rescue his botched effort. How many people saw his miracles? One? Twelve? Eighty? Why didn't he show the whole world? Not because this is some giant pop quiz by God to test us -- but because he did not perform any miracles!"

The answer is there were 0 witnesses, since every account was written long after the "His" death. There is not one single thing written when Jesus was supposed to be walking around raising people from the dead.

Cenk said, "Even his apostles can't agree on what miracles he supposedly carried out or when he carried them out. Or whether he returned after death or he didn't. Whether they saw him in person or just as a vision. Rational human beings shouldn't believe this kind of nonsense. Yet most of the world does."

There are no original manuscripts of the gospels. The authors of the gospels are unknown. Paul only had a vision. You think most of the world believes this because you don't know much about most of the world, or religion. Neither Jews nor Muslims believe that Jesus was god. Many countries of the world are not religious. . Cenk said, "If a man today killed his only son to show how much he loved other people, he would be considered a madman, locked in jail and earn society's contempt. Yet we think this is some sort of noble act by our Father in Heaven."

Many people think that it is a myth, and it is not really something that most of the shepherds emphasizes to their flock.

Cenk said, "In Heaven? What, with the harps and the winged angels and the 72 virgins? My God, how stupid do you have to be to believe that?"

I don't know how stupid you have to be? Why don't you tell us, then we can all have a good laugh?

People can believe anything that they want to believe. What they can't do is try to force their religious beliefs or pseudo-science on atheists. That is when people have the right to tell them where to get off. This exercise in futility does is not the same thing at all, and does not represent what atheists are doing. They do not seek out any religion to criticize. Atheists are being attacked by theist because of their non-belief. I have never told anyone anything about their beliefs unless they started it.

Cenk said, "I know most of you don't actually read your religious texts, and when you do, you assiduously try to avoid the parts that make no sense whatsoever or hide underneath the comforting grasp of your religious leaders who have concocted a bunch of circular logic (a crime to even use that word in regards to Christianity, Islam or Judaism) to shield you from the obvious folly of the written text."

This is an assumption, and that is what Christians usually based their opinions on. I never assume someone hasn't read something until they demonstrate their ignorance on that subject. Then I tell them that they do not know the subject. Making general statement about what people have or haven't done is not anything atheists are interested in doing. As I said, it is when they start trying to prove something to the atheist, when they don't know the subject themselves that a statement like that would be appropriate, nobody asked you.

Cenk said, "So, I'm not calling you stupid if you haven't really read the material. And I know how powerful brainwashing is. We all received it when we were young and it is exceedingly difficult to break its grasp. But people dance around the issue out of politeness because they don't want to call you what you are -- ignorant."

No, we don't call anyone ignorant until they prove it, and I think you fit into that category. Everyone was not brainwashed into a religion at birth. People who don't want to be called ignorant should keep their beliefs to themselves.

Cenk said, "There are a lot of people I love dearly and respect wholeheartedly who believe in religion. I hate to do this to them. But we have killed far too many people, wasted far too much time on this nonsense for us to keep going in this direction for fear of offense."

I doubt that you could offend anyone. You have only proven how ignorant you are on many levels. I think what you have written is far more offensive to atheists. It is full of errors and is completely unnecessary. Religion is not the only cause of war; it is just one of the contributing factor. People who are offended by what atheist say should refrain from trying to peddle their religion to atheists, and reading atheist message boards.

Cenk said, "Jesus was a lunatic. God is not coming to your rescue. He hasn't come to anyone's rescue in thousands of years, including Jesus. Mohammed was a power hungry, scam artist and ruthless conqueror. Moses and Abraham were figments of the imagination of some long dead rabbi. He would probably laugh his ass off at all of you who still believe the fairytales he made up thousands of years ago. He probably wouldn't even believe it if you told him."

If Jesus was a lunatic he had plenty of company. Moses never existed at all. This myth about being saved by his mother, when she put him into a reed basket on the river Nile is parallel to older myths that came out of Egypt and Mesopotamian religions. Therefore, I don't know how he could laugh his ass off at anyone, when he never had one.

Cenk said, "Did I mention Judaism? The chosen people? Come on, get off it. People walk around in clothes from 18th century Russia, thinking they have been chosen by God when they look like a bunch of jackasses. I'm tired of all the deaths because we did not want to give offense. Orthodox Jews are wrong and ridiculous."

If Jews were trying to force their religion on everyone that might make some sense. Jews never bother people about religion. Why do you think that atheists would be saying something like that about Jews? We don't because we are not idiots. Many Christians are anti-Semitic bigots who try to force Jesus on the Jews.

Cenk said, "As are the orthodox and fundamentalists of all of the religions. It says in the Bible that it is an abomination to wear clothes made of two different cloths or to eat shellfish. If you think God will hate you because you mixed wool and linen or because you ate some shrimp, you are insane."

You're about one brick short of a full load. You forgot to go after the Indians for sending up smoke signals.

Cenk said, "How long are we going to dance around the 800-pound gorilla in the room? The world is run by madmen. It's not just Bush and bin Laden. It is the leader of all of the countries in the Middle East, almost all of the Americas and most of the rest of the world."

Bush is not the President and Ussamah Bin Ladin was never the leader of any country. If you think that is who rules the world you are sadly mistaken.

Cenk said, "Have I offended you? That's too bad. Stop killing each other in the name of false and ridiculous Gods and I will stop ridiculing you. Trust me, your offense is much worse than mine."

When you get your doctorate then you can offend someone.

Cenk said, "Right now as you read this, there are ignorant, hateful Muslims teaching other ignorant Muslims how to put on a suicide belt. There are orthodox Jews telling other Jews how they must never leave their "holy land" no matter what the consequences are to other human beings. They assure their followers -- remember, they are not the chosen ones, we are. If we crush and oppress them, don't worry, God will excuse it, and even desires it, because He is on our side."

Don't you think you need to go after the witches?

Cenk said, "There are maniacal Christians who are praying for the end of time. Who are hoping that most of the world's population is wiped off the face of the Earth by their vengeful and murderous God. Whom they believe is, ironically, a loving God. Unless, of course, you make the fatal mistake of not kissing his ass and appeasing him, in which case he will slaughter you and condemn you to eternal torture. What kind of sick people believe this?

Well, just take a wild f'n guess!"

Cenk said, "The kind who live next to you. The kind who voted for George Bush. The kind who send their religious leaders to the White House to argue against even-handedness in the Middle East because it would prevent their sick prophecy. The kind who have undue influence over how we use the greatest and most lethal army ever built by man."

Is this the power of positive thinking - or delusions of grandeur?

Cenk said, "If you don't want to be called ignorant or misinformed, then get informed. Learn the real nature of our universe and put aside old wives tales about resurrected Gods, omniscient prophets and a guy who could split the Red Sea but couldn't find where he's going in the desert for forty years."

Maybe they asked someone like you to give them direction

To Linda: What is your problem Linda? Cenk is obviously not addressing atheists, but the theist community living in America. Cenk is speaking on the behalf of reason and science and you want to bash it because you think Denmark is a more advance country than America. I don't get it. You're maybe right about your technological stats, but why are you misdirecting the message. The message seems to be a good one and if Cenk's message can get through to them, that religion is bad news, why do you feel the need to attack it? I'm sorry but you're starting to alienate other atheist or at least me. It seems to me you are more interest in being right than having real discussions. You basically took apart everything Cenk had written and every mistake no matter how insignificant and criticized it. I just don't understand what your goal is anymore.

To: Cenk Thanks for putting your message out there. I hope your message gets through to someone and leads them to a more reasonable way of thinking. America might not be the most advanced or greatest nation in the world but it's a place that I would always try to support.

I would have to agree with Uncle Sam here. I am not completely agreeing with everything that Cenk said though. I have a pretty strong dislike for any organized religion, but i don't usually try to attack them directly as its not been best way to get my message across to them that believe. I really don't understand what your point is in being so venomous towards what he said. I am sure that some of his facts could be debated or are wrong, but his point is solid. Organized religion is a problem in nearly all forms and when you can it should have holes poked in it to show it for the fraud that it is. It seemed that was Cenks point in this post was. What was yours Linda? Some of your replies sound almost like you are trying to defend religion. ( Cenk said, "As are the orthodox and fundamentalists of all of the religions. It says in the Bible that it is an abomination to wear clothes made of two different cloths or to eat shellfish. If you think God will hate you because you mixed wool and linen or because you ate some shrimp, you are insane."

Linda said "You're about one brick short of a full load. You forgot to go after the Indians for sending up smoke signals.") Its very confusing. This example here really confuses me. Are you saying that don't agree that its a bit crazy to think that any god would be concerned if you were polyblend clothing? I personally find this to be a good example to show the extreme pettiness of the bible god. If you can get people to realizing that their god is as petty as a fellow human, its one step closer to them realizing that he may not even exist.

All this being said, i am not against correcting other peoples facts that may be in error, but you seem to be going beyond that and i am not sure why?

JW

Oh! I wounder who this is? What an original pseudonym. How can "Linda" alienate atheists? What atheists? Linda has proven that pseudoscience and the bible babble was nothing but fakery. Most atheist like that. But she has never gone out just to attack any person's religion as was done in that post to make atheists look like bigots.

People who are telling people what to think - but they do not know anything - is of no value to anyone; not even the theists.

I see that you picked up on what I said about misdirecting discussions for someone's own purposes. Don't try to use it on someone who is not doing that.

No atheist with a lick of sense would have made remarks like that for no reason about various religions and ethnic groups. That post did not serve any purpose - it was not an answer to someone's absurd claims - it was full of assumptions directed at just anyone - if we are having a discussion with a poorly informed, uneducated boob that will not accept it when they are wrong that is different. Like if someone claimed that "The elements are not encoded in Genesis"! Then we can say they are ignorant, but not before. It was a lot of derogatory remarks against certain ethnic groups for no reason. No atheist would have said anything that was in that post - for no reason - and no atheist would approve of it. No one's going to answer any more this fakery. I guess you will have talk to yourself. Or you could take your charade to a Christian apologist's message board where it belongs.

Uncle Sam,

Don't you trust Uncle Sam and the content he is providing here under the Uncle Sam pseudonym?

I really do hate to have to disagree with Uncle Sam, but I can't find any reason for his post. Unless it was for the soul purpose of putting an ugly face on, and distorting the image of, the atheists who are not the offenders.

Perhaps you think that pseudonym gives you some kind of authority?

To John:

Most of us on here use pseudonyms. Why would anyone use their full name to identify themselves on an internet forum? You go by "John", the most common name ever and you want to complain about someone using a pseudonym. I just thought that Cenk had some good points and Linda just attacked a non-believer for no reasons but to assert her superior intellect. I like Linda and I think she is great, but she came off a bit harsh. This is an open site where any belief system can be expressed not only atheists. And from what I've seen, atheist, Christians, Muslims, and all sorts of belief systems are expressed here. If Cenk wanted to express himself the way that he did, why shouldn't he. Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and Richard Dawkins are just some notable people that express the same points that Cenk was trying to express. Are you implying that anyone who speaks out against religion is out to distort the atheist image? That doesn't make any sense.

---I'm sorry but you're starting to alienate other atheist or at least me.---

I felt that same thing, too! How strange. It surely was brutal and like... sort of like leaving me feel the "crazies" inside somehow, like something was terribly shaking the foundation of my own self-esteem or my own identity or something. It was just sad and brutal, I thought.

Hmmm.

Cenk, I am a scientist and atheist who voted for George W. Bush over Albert Gore, Jr. and over John F. Kerry. It is fortunate that President Bush sent elements of the greatest and most lethal army ever built by man to liberate tens-of-millions of people from the murderous regimes of Saddam Hussein and the Taliban.

The reason you have a problem with that reply has a very simple explanation; you don't know that atheists can disagree with anyone, and most especially some unlearned idiot, even if they are claiming to be an atheist. This is not Jesus Camp.

We already know that atheists don't believe in God, but what you indeed do not know is, atheists or skeptics have to have good reasons to be convinced about many things.

That is why most atheists are informed enough to know that Bush is not the leader of any country now, and that Osama Bin Laden was never the leader of any country.

Most informed people know that the war in Iraq was based on the false premise that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (WMD's) and that Saddam Hussein had connections to Al Qaeda. All of that has been thoroughly debunked. Those were the excuses for that pre-emptive war that could never have gotten off the ground if the excuse had been to "liberate tens-of-millions of people from the murderous regimes of Saddam Hussein and the Taliban"; you are only demonstrating your ignorance. Otherwise you would now know that there was never a connection to Hussein and the Taliban. It also indicates that you are totally ignorant of the fact that CIA director William Casey had said the proudest achievement of the CIA was the overthrow of the democratically elected Mossadegh government. This crime placed the Shah of Iran in power as a compliant and brutal U.S. puppet leader before he was overthrown in 1979, which goes to proves that we did back a brutal dictator.

If removing oppressive dictators was a good enough excuse to go to war there would be far too many. We could be involved in some kind of a war all over the world. We helped Saddam Hussein when he was at war with Iran. Hussein collaborated with the United States in launching the 1980 war with Iran. But the Iraqi regime was never a puppet government of U.S. imperial interests in the same way as the client regimes in Jordan, Kuwait or Saudi Arabia.

U.N. weapons inspectors have exposed the truth about the WMD that Iraq didn't have any. That was the rhetoric of the Bush administration to get us into a war. It was all based on myths and the only people that still believe it are the same people that believe in myths, no matter how much proof there is that it's a lie.

Saddam Hussein's didn't have any biological, chemical or nuclear weapons capabilities that was just an excuse that the neo-cons used to push the US into a war with Iraq.

There had been seven years of inspections that were able to confirm that Iraq's chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs were effectively destroyed. There was no probable link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. It is just an absurdity to think that our country should be bankrupting our treasury in order to force democracy on a nation that has been divided for centuries. We should be seeking a diplomatic solution to this debacle in order to get out.

These posts also indicate an incredible ignorance about their own country in many areas, especially financial. As was stated when the military is being funded by the wealth of other nations it can't be the most powerful country in the world; if we are at the mercy of other nations who are lending the money to finance our debt.

People can call themselves anything, but I know the difference in someone who can't win an argument as a theist or an atheist because they are just too dumb. They are ignorant because they just believe what they are told instead of looking for the facts.

They are true believers - faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. What more do they need; how about some evidence and some fact based information. Oh yes! He didn't need to tell us how much he loves Christians and doesn't want to offend them; we already knew that. He needs to understand that atheists don't go out of their way to tell Christians anything. Christians do that.

~ Jacqueline

Jacqueline, what you mean by "that reply" is unclear. My reply was to Cenk's original post.

Your statement that I "don't know that atheists can disagree with anyone" is false. Whether or not you are a theist, an example that your statement is false would be if you do not agree with me that President Bush was wise to send elements of the greatest and most lethal army ever built by man to liberate tens-of-millions of people from the murderous regimes of Saddam Hussein and the Taliban.

Mark said, "President Bush was wise to send elements of the greatest and most lethal army ever built by man to liberate tens-of-millions of people from the murderous regimes of Saddam Hussein and the Taliban."

I've seen some of your other posts and I think I know exactly where you're coming from. That post was not addressed to any particular poster. I think it was addressing the stupid remarks coming from what is clearly people of the same mentality - if not the same person.

Everyone knows - and it was very clear to most people who can read - that what you wrote as "reasons" for the war - were never stated as the reasons for going to war with Iraq or Afghanistan. Iraq was supposed to have WMD and was involved with Al Qaeda. Both of these fabrications were proven false. Everyone but you probably knows this. You just don't get it.

The only reason Iraq had any terrorists was those that came in after we invaded because we didn't close the borders against Arab and foreign terrorists. The greatest - but dumbest.

The reason for the war in Afghanistan was (as the President Promised) to get those responsible for the terrorist attack on the U.S. The President Promised the terrorist would be caught. Only two months later, Bush decided to pull out most of the special operations troops and their CIA counterparts in the paramilitary division that were leading the hunt for bin Laden in Afghanistan to prepare for war in Iraq.

"The US has the biggest deficit in the world, and all of this happened during a Republican administration. It is still a world power only because the United States spends roughly 10 times more than the next biggest spending countries of the world to finance its deficits, so all the military might of the US is on borrowed money."

It's sad but true.

The best decision our government could make is helping other nations with programs like The Peace Corp rather than attacking them. If we want to play a meaningful role, as the most powerful nation on earth (because the poorest and most defenseless people suffer the most from these wars) we need to find a way to bring about a peaceful solution to the problems of the world. Trying to go all around the world exhibiting our military might is not a good idea either. These are not the things that make a nation great.

Wow! Between Cenk and Linda, I'm not sure if I should dare take the risk of offering my opinion. What we have here is a tapestry of insults for the sake of insult, really. Cenk feels (believes) that what he wrote is honest and true based on what he knows. His anger and frustration is well recognized within the context of what he wrote and his meaning is understood, at least, by me.

Linda feels (believes) that what she wrote is honest and true based on what she knows. Her anger and frustration is well recognized within the context of what she wrote and her meaning is understood, at least, by me.

Now, if I write anymore than what I have just written, I stand a good chance of being insulted based on my own interpretation of this thread. I will only become another weave within the complicated tapestry of bashing and that is all I will be.

I wish I could disclose who I favor more toward their opinion the most, ...but I don't dare!

How unfortunate.

You must have overlooked all of the remarks under various pseudonyms supporting that ignorant rant that was made without any provocation, or was it supposed to depict atheist views? I thought it was profoundly ignorant and didn't reflect the attitude of any well-informed person. Anyone that wants to can point it out if they think that someone is making boorish insulting remarks (for no apparent reason) that are not pertinent to any atheist agenda. Including the misinformed opinions, if they perceive them that way. Even if the usual "fan club" thought it was great. I don't have a problem saying what side I'm on. There are probably more than a few people who know that Osama bin Ladin was never the leader of any country, and that's the least of the errors. It's reminiscent of "the elements are encoded in Genesis."

No matter whose sentiments you are in agreement with, it doesn't change the fact that when someone posts commentary that is full of incredible inaccuracies and mean spirited remarks (while insulting various religious, and minority ethnic groups) it will probably get some unfavorable responses.

Cenk said, "There are a lot of people I love dearly and respect wholeheartedly who believe in religion. I hate to do this to them." Was this an example of atheists not respecting beliefs? If so, it's right up there with telling an atheist that "they shouldn't mind going to church to make theists happy." Then complaining when they get told off, and insisting that the atheist (who didn't want to go to church) was not respecting people's beliefs.

What's sad is nincompoops who get mad when their obtuseness is pointed out to them, and every time they are reproached we have to listen to the same "poor me" complaints.

...was that all directed at me??? If so... is there a reason?

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